Yup. These templars are at best Lawful Neutral. If you read back on all the other parties she sent to their deaths (including plenty of corpses trapped in spider webs), it more looks like Lawful Evil.
It’s hard to imagine a “good” reason to be intentionally sending young adventurers to their deaths.
Its not clear that Ysteena knew the level of quest before the quest was completed. We don’t know what happens after permadeath, possible it means reroll new character/reincarnation. If it is reincarnation then may in some ways helpful to those with weaker skill set to reroll till they get a good skill set.
1
Sleel
Yes. Cause you only have one chance to get a good skillset. When you roll. Yup. No one grinds XP, lvls up and improves their skillset that way. No, that is to efficient, and not utterly evil. Better to send them to over lvl fights so they can die if they don’t have a miracle provided to them by plot armour. As evidenced by all the corpses hanging in the webs.
The only kind of thing this kind of ‘leadership’ inspires, is coups, and knives in backs. And she’d deserve every blade sunk into her. Hope they’re dull.
4
Elvis Presley
If you start with a really good skillset and then you grind, all things being equal you end up way ahead of someone with average skillset who grinds, nature of the rpg game. The levelling will come faster and you will be stronger at the same level. (of course leading to a less earned and more luck based success)
Though we may have an equaliser, where if you are average abilities and act exceptional you may get favor of a god boost.
SteveM
> Its not clear that Ysteena knew the level of quest before the quest was completed.
I mean, it spices up the plot, and maybe we’re reading too much into a comic, but intentionally sending people on missions in which three previous parties have died is hardly a good act.
The kindest interpretation is that she was hoping that Cypren would chicken out, so giving him the mission was a graceful way to have him decide to leave the order on his own.
But even then, what did she say to the previous party? “Okay, two previous partied have been killed attempting this. Have at it!” (oops, I did it again?)
Lawful Good can still technically be on the table for the group as a whole. Remember, this quest was for a ‘fallen’ templar to earn back his lost graces. The other parties may well have been the same. Taken in that regard, it was a ‘recover your honor’ sorta thing. That said, I am ALSO leaning towards neutral for their allignment, just wanted to point out that good is technically still on the table.
…Save point? As in…they weren’t at risk the entire time because they could have just Groundhog Day’d it? Then again its been awhile…were those always an established thing? I’ve honestly forgotten.
We saw save points earlier when they raided their own basement (and died quite a few times). But I vaguely recall the group explicitly saying that there was no save point near this lair. It’s unclear (at least to me) how permanent their death would’ve been there considering this. After all Ysteena didn’t seem to expect Cyprien to return when she sent him on the suicide mission.
The Templars took away his class abilities due to shifting from lawful to chaotic, but by his actions he pleased a deity that gave him boons outside of class/templar ones.
There\’s no mention of *which* higher power granted him \”aegis of the dying\”. It doesn\’t have to be one entirely aligned with the templar hierarchy\’s agenda.
I always questioned why Paladins had to be \’Lawful Good\’, can\’t Chaotic deities have Paladins too ? If so then they\’d have to follow the \’law\’ of Chaos 😉
I always argued, and sometimes won ;), that a Paladin followed the alignment of it\’s deity and to that deity their actions were, of course, both \’lawful\’ and \’good\’ so long as they were what was expected of them
Alignment arguments are inevitable around a table, especially when I consider True Neutral to be capable of literally anything since they don\’t care about \’good\’ or \’evil\’ or \’law\’ or \’chaos\’ and do what they see needs to be done at the time. They can be more LG than the staunchest Paladin and at the same time more CN than a Gnome Assassin hopped up on fey wine 😉
Can’t remember many but there were actually variants of Paladin for each of the alignments released later for just that reason.
CG = Paladin of Freedom
CE = Paladin of Slaughter
LE = Paladin of Tyranny
etc… one was a Warden, I think. Some were from Dragon Magazine or UA. Things like that.
Dragon Magazine published the Antipaladin, then later, seven other alt-paladin variants back in 1e or 2e, and again published paladin alts in 3e (3.5 actually).
If a deity were to directly manifest, I don’t think this would be the moment. In my gaming experience (which may not represent the average), divinities tend to be rather more subtle (encounter-breaking boons notwithstanding). I’d expect minor bumps, little hints that show up in progressively more blatant style with each infringement. Only when Ysteena tries to explicitly claim him would that “mine!” incident occur.
26 thoughts on “Elven 00155 | Return Of The Templar”
sunphoenix72
So.. all his class abilities back…plus all he has just earned… yeah Cypren is on his Way! No thanks to Ysteena!
Ravy
I’m pleasantly surprised she’s keeping her end of the bargain.
sunphoenix72
Well she IS lawful… if not particularly ‘Moral’!
lou
Petition to rename “Lawful Evil” to “Lawful Awful”…
Ebonbolt
Denied. Contract stipulates no explicit insults.
Evil Tree
Ysteena may send parties into deadly situations well over their heads but she still keeps her promises.
So … yay?
SteveM
Yup. These templars are at best Lawful Neutral. If you read back on all the other parties she sent to their deaths (including plenty of corpses trapped in spider webs), it more looks like Lawful Evil.
It’s hard to imagine a “good” reason to be intentionally sending young adventurers to their deaths.
Elvis Presley
Its not clear that Ysteena knew the level of quest before the quest was completed. We don’t know what happens after permadeath, possible it means reroll new character/reincarnation. If it is reincarnation then may in some ways helpful to those with weaker skill set to reroll till they get a good skill set.
Sleel
Yes. Cause you only have one chance to get a good skillset. When you roll. Yup. No one grinds XP, lvls up and improves their skillset that way. No, that is to efficient, and not utterly evil. Better to send them to over lvl fights so they can die if they don’t have a miracle provided to them by plot armour. As evidenced by all the corpses hanging in the webs.
The only kind of thing this kind of ‘leadership’ inspires, is coups, and knives in backs. And she’d deserve every blade sunk into her. Hope they’re dull.
Elvis Presley
If you start with a really good skillset and then you grind, all things being equal you end up way ahead of someone with average skillset who grinds, nature of the rpg game. The levelling will come faster and you will be stronger at the same level. (of course leading to a less earned and more luck based success)
Though we may have an equaliser, where if you are average abilities and act exceptional you may get favor of a god boost.
SteveM
> Its not clear that Ysteena knew the level of quest before the quest was completed.
Sure she did: “My last three squire wanna-be’s didn’t make it out of that cavern.”
https://elven.co.nz/comic/elven-00129/
I mean, it spices up the plot, and maybe we’re reading too much into a comic, but intentionally sending people on missions in which three previous parties have died is hardly a good act.
The kindest interpretation is that she was hoping that Cypren would chicken out, so giving him the mission was a graceful way to have him decide to leave the order on his own.
But even then, what did she say to the previous party? “Okay, two previous partied have been killed attempting this. Have at it!” (oops, I did it again?)
Aurik_Marr
Lawful Good can still technically be on the table for the group as a whole. Remember, this quest was for a ‘fallen’ templar to earn back his lost graces. The other parties may well have been the same. Taken in that regard, it was a ‘recover your honor’ sorta thing. That said, I am ALSO leaning towards neutral for their allignment, just wanted to point out that good is technically still on the table.
Samantha
Just goes to show you, deities like stupid people.
I mean, look at Forrest Gump and that crazy storm giving him a shrimping monopoly.
lou
I just love the genre-savviness of the characters in this comic.
Availablenameistaken
…Save point? As in…they weren’t at risk the entire time because they could have just Groundhog Day’d it? Then again its been awhile…were those always an established thing? I’ve honestly forgotten.
lou
We saw save points earlier when they raided their own basement (and died quite a few times). But I vaguely recall the group explicitly saying that there was no save point near this lair. It’s unclear (at least to me) how permanent their death would’ve been there considering this. After all Ysteena didn’t seem to expect Cyprien to return when she sent him on the suicide mission.
Llywenna
It\’s easy to be \’lawful\’ when you\’re the one making the laws…just listen any politician excusig themselves of what would get you or me locked up
AvangionQ
Divine Blessing, yet he’s lost his class powers? Something doesn’t add up.
Lucio_Cruz
The Templars took away his class abilities due to shifting from lawful to chaotic, but by his actions he pleased a deity that gave him boons outside of class/templar ones.
someone
There\’s no mention of *which* higher power granted him \”aegis of the dying\”. It doesn\’t have to be one entirely aligned with the templar hierarchy\’s agenda.
Elvis Presley
He was out of his way to risk/give up his life to save allies, which for even a lawful good deity probably vastly outweighs starting a bar fight
Llywenna
I always questioned why Paladins had to be \’Lawful Good\’, can\’t Chaotic deities have Paladins too ? If so then they\’d have to follow the \’law\’ of Chaos 😉
I always argued, and sometimes won ;), that a Paladin followed the alignment of it\’s deity and to that deity their actions were, of course, both \’lawful\’ and \’good\’ so long as they were what was expected of them
Alignment arguments are inevitable around a table, especially when I consider True Neutral to be capable of literally anything since they don\’t care about \’good\’ or \’evil\’ or \’law\’ or \’chaos\’ and do what they see needs to be done at the time. They can be more LG than the staunchest Paladin and at the same time more CN than a Gnome Assassin hopped up on fey wine 😉
bluzgyavekt
Can’t remember many but there were actually variants of Paladin for each of the alignments released later for just that reason.
CG = Paladin of Freedom
CE = Paladin of Slaughter
LE = Paladin of Tyranny
etc… one was a Warden, I think. Some were from Dragon Magazine or UA. Things like that.
Ebonbolt
Dragon Magazine published the Antipaladin, then later, seven other alt-paladin variants back in 1e or 2e, and again published paladin alts in 3e (3.5 actually).
Crestlinger
Waiting for the equivalent of Lathander to show up in front of her and saying ‘MINE!’
Ebonbolt
If a deity were to directly manifest, I don’t think this would be the moment. In my gaming experience (which may not represent the average), divinities tend to be rather more subtle (encounter-breaking boons notwithstanding). I’d expect minor bumps, little hints that show up in progressively more blatant style with each infringement. Only when Ysteena tries to explicitly claim him would that “mine!” incident occur.